The Fleur de Lis logo: keep, lose, change-to-what?

Opinions about the forum logo (Ace Spectrum flag superimposed on a fleur de lis) vary widely between forum members.
I like the logo, but I'm willing to change it if others have something better in mind.

Please vote at your convenience, and if you want it changed, please post your suggestion of the change in this thread.

I like the Fleur. I like how distinctive of a symbol it is, I say that we keep it. Hopefully it will become a widely recognized symbol at some point in the future.

I'm just going to link to the other thread where I discussed this

Hmm...I think mel's input on the other thread is important, so brainstorming other symbols would be nice (pretty as the fleur is).

I agree with avoiding spades and hearts - but what about clubs? I really like clubs and have used them as a wtf/grey-romantic symbol. Or do we want to leave card suits to romantic orientations altogether?

Considering the clubs/diamonds, etc., are the symbols as found on playing cards, and carry the heavy implication of 'ace'... and considering the forum's target audience is a group that does not identify as totally ace... I think using card motifs is a bit touchy. Otherwise I'd be all for it.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but never underestimate a symbol's ambiguity. I expect we can all agree that there are unintended problems with the AVEN triangle because the implications were not fully considered back in 2001 when it was first used on AVEN.

When I saw the fleur-de-lis logo on this forum, I thought it was an odd choice, because my brain flicked through all the things I know that the fleur-de-lis has been used to symbolize, and tossed aside things like “France” and “royalty” because they did not make sense in this context. So the first things I landed on (like mel mentioned in the other thread) were “purity”, “chastity”, and “virginity”, which I was certain you were not going for, but it doesn’t change the fact that the fleur and the lily from which it derives already have those meanings. It does confound our issues.

History can repeat itself, the AVEN triangle was up for debate, and with the problems going on with that symbol right now, please give this some careful thought.

Quoting that link under the cut because AVEN is always on the fritz these days.

Spoiler:

AVENguy Posted 26 August 2003 - 07:57 PM:
Yeah, the triangle was just something I cooked up a while back, though it doesn't really work as a symbol anymore (if you look at the AVEN sympol article under information on asexuality it's derivation is mostly, ya know, wrong. There isn't a gender binary with just male and female, and asexuals don't "go to the center," we can experience gendered attraction.) I actually LIKE the reference to the GLBT pink triangle. Between the color and the pattern it's clearly a different thing, and I see asexuality as related to GLBT/queer issues (we're all sexualities.) I'm all for changing the symbol if people feel like they have a better suggestion. Mostly it just has to be:

Simple
Origional
Easily recognisable
Have some vague metaphorial link to asexuality

I think of the triangle as the AVEN symbol (not "the asexual symbol.") Which is why I've sorta had it up there without much community discussion. I'm not particularely attached to it though, and we could definitely replace it (if so we should do so soon, so we can have the right symbol for the discovery channel show.) The two circles are ok, but they're less recognizable (circles are next to each other ALOT) and they can be be construed as saying something about gender-nuetrality, which is confusing.

Does anyone here use ace as an umbrella term? There has been a trend on tumblr where people are doing that, to avoid using asexual as an umbrella term for those in the ace spectrum. Not that I'm saying you should use the card motif.

Hmm, I was going to suggest a prism, since sexuality is a spectrum, but what do you know, most prisms are represented as triangular, so I came full circle.



Dies of the irony.

hexaquark wrote:Don’t take this the wrong way, but never underestimate a symbol's ambiguity. I expect we can all agree that there are unintended problems with the AVEN triangle because the implications were not fully considered back in 2001 when it was first used on AVEN.

When I saw the fleur-de-lis logo on this forum, I thought it was an odd choice, because my brain flicked through all the things I know that the fleur-de-lis has been used to symbolize, and tossed aside things like “France” and “royalty” because they did not make sense in this context. So the first things I landed on (like mel mentioned in the other thread) were “purity”, “chastity”, and “virginity”, which I was certain you were not going for, but it doesn’t change the fact that the fleur and the lily from which it derives already have those meanings. It does confound our issues.

History can repeat itself, the AVEN triangle was up for debate, and with the problems going on with that symbol right now, please give this some careful thought.

Quoting that link under the cut because AVEN is always on the fritz these days.

Spoiler:

AVENguy Posted 26 August 2003 - 07:57 PM:
Yeah, the triangle was just something I cooked up a while back, though it doesn't really work as a symbol anymore (if you look at the AVEN sympol article under information on asexuality it's derivation is mostly, ya know, wrong. There isn't a gender binary with just male and female, and asexuals don't "go to the center," we can experience gendered attraction.) I actually LIKE the reference to the GLBT pink triangle. Between the color and the pattern it's clearly a different thing, and I see asexuality as related to GLBT/queer issues (we're all sexualities.) I'm all for changing the symbol if people feel like they have a better suggestion. Mostly it just has to be:

Simple
Origional
Easily recognisable
Have some vague metaphorial link to asexuality

I think of the triangle as the AVEN symbol (not "the asexual symbol.") Which is why I've sorta had it up there without much community discussion. I'm not particularely attached to it though, and we could definitely replace it (if so we should do so soon, so we can have the right symbol for the discovery channel show.) The two circles are ok, but they're less recognizable (circles are next to each other ALOT) and they can be be construed as saying something about gender-nuetrality, which is confusing.

Does anyone here use ace as an umbrella term? There has been a trend on tumblr where people are doing that, to avoid using asexual as an umbrella term for those in the ace spectrum. Not that I'm saying you should use the card motif.

Hmm, I was going to suggest a prism, since sexuality is a spectrum, but what do you know, most prisms are represented as triangular, so I came full circle.



Dies of the irony.

I don't think we'd ever be rid of the associations with pink floyd either

Mel, thanks for saying it so I didn't have to. >_< <3


That said, wicked graphic. :]

Yeah I noticed that . It wasn’t a serious suggestion, I just wanted to be more productive than saying that I think the fleur-de-lis is something to tread lightly with, and then running away. Though in the long run, would you rather be associated with Pink Floyd or chastity ? Also I’m pretty sure that is not how prisms split light, but damned if I didn’t want the overlap anyway. It looked better.

Are you going to stick with the fleur unless something better comes along?

Are you going to stick with the fleur unless something better comes along?

Yup.

Personally i quite like Tegids avatar (if you don't want to use it fair enough it is your avatar) maybe without the green circle or the n and infinity sign but i feel it is a fairly simple graphic that can be easily embellished to suit the individual.
With regards to the fleur de lis, other connotations aside, it is very similar to the scouting symbol which is a white fleur de lis on a purple background. The only major difference (to the ones on the sides of the banner) is that the scout logo has a star in each of the side fronds. The rope around the outside of the scout fleur de lis is supposed to represent the world wide part of the movement and the symbol is fairly regularly used without it (at least here in the UK).

Smiley Tom wrote:Personally i quite like Tegids avatar (if you don't want to use it fair enough it is your avatar) maybe without the green circle or the n and infinity sign but i feel it is a fairly simple graphic that can be easily embellished to suit the individual.
With regards to the fleur de lis, other connotations aside, it is very similar to the scouting symbol which is a white fleur de lis on a purple background. The only major difference (to the ones on the sides of the banner) is that the scout logo has a star in each of the side fronds. The rope around the outside of the scout fleur de lis is supposed to represent the world wide part of the movement and the symbol is fairly regularly used without it (at least here in the UK).

Regarding Tegid's avatar (and I don't know if this is intentional) but the stylized "A" cut into the colored heart used actually has a very strong association with the Anarchist movement so might not be appropriate as a general symbol.

Yep fair enough i missed that. Guess its a bit hard to find symbols without some form of association. Maybe one way to go about it would be to work out what we want to be associated with and try and combine those symbols, or just leave it as it is.
Anyway i just knocked up a heart similar to Tegid's but using the peace symbol instead of the A you'll have to forgive me its paint and i only have my laptop track pad.

Spoiler:

Our avatar is a combination of the ace spectrum flag, the Relationship Anarch symbol (pictured above), the plurality flag and "n" icon, and the polyamory lemniscate.

Unless we want to be directly identified with relationship anarchy (not that that's a bad thing, but many folk including demis and graces still identify with traditional relationship styles only, and might find that association problematic), we need to avoid any similar cutting-away-from-hearts.

Also there's the whole... 'peace sign = hippy liberals' connotation, which again might bother some folk.

The icon is excellent, Smiley Tom, and in another context would be great for conveying cooperation and peaceful, respectful interactions and sex-and-romance positivity... but if the goal is to replace a symbol-with-loaded-connotations with something lacking loaded connotations, then intersecting more loaded icons probably isn't the way for us to make that happen. :-/