Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:30 pm

Okey dokey, folks, here is my mock-up dictionary of potentially-relevant terms in this forum. Not counting links to Wikipedia etc., I pretty much wrote this all off the top of my head; this means some things may come off slightly less Politically Correct and Inoffensive than I am trying to make them.

There are two dictionaries on this forum. The other is found here: http://demigrace.forumotion.com/t62-tegid-s-glossary-an-experiment-in-perception-and-meaning#320.
At the time of this posting, they are identical in everything except the original post, and the fact that this thread is open to replies, and that thread is locked to replies.
If you want to know why the other dictionary is locked, feel free to follow that link and read the original post.

This dictionary exists for the sole purpose of representing with as much precision as possible the views and meanings assigned these terms by the members of Demi Grace. This is your dictionary. If you want a change made, talk about it in this thread. If contradicting definitions come up, I'll post them both, with less-popular contradicting definitions in olive text.
The most popular definition of a set that contradict each other will be in regular black text.
Unless a definition is requested that is triggering, harassing, obvious nonsense trolling, or in violation of the terms of service... I'll post it. Smile

If you wish me to specifically alter or correct something in this list, or add something, I request that you talk about it in this very thread, quoting specifically what you believe needs to be changed. I won't limit the dictionary to just what I think about these terms; that's what the other one is for.

Thank you!


-----
Prefixes and Suffixes:

    A- "not" or "without", pertaining to somebody who does not have a specific type of attraction or feeling, either romantic or sexual.

    Andro- "man", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people who identify as male; enables people outside the gender binary to clearly state orientations without self-referencing through hetero- or homo-.

    Androgyno- "man-woman", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people who identify as androgynous; enables people outside the gender binary to clearly state orientations without self-referencing through hetero- or homo-.

    Bi- "two", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people falling into two gender or sex categories; in society this tends to imply the male-female binary, but it can also apply to non-binary genders

    Demi- "half", pertaining to somebody who is viewable as "half (a)sexual" and/or "half (a)romantic" spectra of sexual and romantic attraction; is not the same as Semi- **

    Gender- - pertaining to the mental, emotional, behavioural, social, and other nonphysical characteristics of a person, by which they self-categorize and/or are socially categorized as male, female, agender, pangender, genderqueer, gender-fluid, or any other number of gender identities. It occurs as a prefix in such terms as genderqueer and genderfluid.

    Gyno- "woman", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people who identify as female; enables people outside the gender binary to clearly state orientations without self-referencing through hetero- or homo-.

    Hetero- "different", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at those of a different sex or gender as themselves; in society this tends to imply subscribing to the sexual male-female binary

    Homo- "same", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at those of the same sex or gender as themselves

    Hyper- "over", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual drives are much stronger than the average

    Hypo- "under", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual drives are much weaker than the average

    Iso- "same, even," pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual drives are in the range of normal or average; one who is not hyper- or hypo- romantic or sexual

    Mono- "one", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at one specific gender and/or sex. Generally includes homo-, hetero-, gyno-, andro-, androgyno-, and neutro- -romantic/-sexual. Excludes bi-, poly-, pan-, and omni- -romantic/-sexual. A person who does not wish to use homo- or hetero- (thereby avoiding self-reference and implications about their own gender/sex) can use mono- to indicate that they are only attracted to one gender/sex, and they can use it in reference to genders/sexes not described easily through Latin or Greek roots or other common terms (ex. "hijra-monosexual" or "post-op-FTM-monoromantic", etc.)

    Neutro- "neither of two", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people who identify as agender/null-gender, neutrois, or gender-neutral; enables people outside the gender binary to clearly state orientations without self-referencing through hetero- or homo-.

    Non- "not" or "zero", pertaining to somebody who does not have a specific type of desire, urge, or drive, either romantic drive or libido.

    Omni- "all", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at absolutely any gender or sex; common use implies non-exclusive application to human beings, meaning that this person could potentially find other sentient species attractive... provided they exist

    Pan- "all", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at absolutely any gender or sex; common use implies exclusive application to human beings. For all other intents and purposes, its meaning is identical to Omni, so until aliens are discovered, omniromantic/sexual would be identical to panromantic/sexual.

    Phallo- "penis", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at somebody whose genitals are masculinely formed, aka "penis-bearers", but does not imply either gender or body presentation, nor any other characteristic of the attractor or the person attracted.

    Poly- "many", not implying 'all', but implying 'more than one', pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people of at least two gender or sex categories; bi- is technically a subgroup of poly-

    Semi- "half", pertaining to somebody who is "half sexually desirous/libidinistic" or "half driven to have romantic relationships"; is not the same as Demi-

    Skolio- "curved" or "bending", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people who identify as genderqueer; enables people outside the gender binary to clearly state orientations without self-referencing through hetero- or homo-.

    Trans- "across; beyond; through; changing", pertaining to somebody who, with or without medical intervention, identify, dress, and/or function as a different gender and/or sex than the one they were assigned at birth; as an umbrella term includes transsexual, transgender, transvestite; can include genderqueer and/or genderfluid, depending on the individual's personal understanding of those terms.

    Tropo- "turning", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at people who identify as genderfluid; enables people outside the gender binary to clearly state orientations without self-referencing through hetero- or homo-. **

    Veri- "true, actual, real", the opposite of A-, pertains to somebody identifying as being in the (majority) group of non-asexuals/aromantics, without implying that they are automatically sexualized and desirous. **

    Yoni- "vagina", pertaining to somebody whose romantic or sexual feelings are directed at somebody whose genitals are femininely formed, aka "vagina-bearers", but does not imply either gender or body presentation, nor any other characteristic of the attractor or the person attracted.

    -curious - pertaining to somebody who identifies at a certain orientation, but who is curious, open-minded, and/or experimental about romantic and/or sexual interactions with individuals who are not in the category that normally attract them, according to their identified orientation.

    -flexible - pertaining to somebody who either 1. identifies as more than one orientation, but not necessarily all at once, and ranges between their various orientations, or 2. identifies as a specific orientation, but is potentially open-minded under certain circumstances to being attracted to people not normally included in their identifies orientation.

    -fluid - pertaining to somebody who ranges between at least two genders, without necessarily identifying as entirely one or as more than one simultaneously, at any given time. Does not necessarily imply genderqueer, since fluidity can range between binary genders, but can be included in the category genderqueer.

    -gender - pertaining to the mental, emotional, behavioural, social, and other nonphysical characteristics of a person, by which they self-categorize and/or are socially categorized as male, female, agender, pangender, genderqueer, gender-fluid, or any other number of gender identities

    -queer - when used as a suffix, as in genderqueer: pertaining to somebody who identifies as having a non-binary gender identity, but without implying fluidity

    -questioning - pertaining to somebody who is still in a state of uncertainty and/or research about their identity and/or orientation

    -romantic - pertaining to emotional and trust-based love, does not imply physical intimacy

    -sexual - 1. pertaining to physically-expressed love, does not necessarily imply emotional intimacy 2. pertaining to the chromosomal, genital, hormonal, and other physical characteristics of a person, by which they are categorized as male, female, neutrois, androgynous, or any other number of sex assignments

    -variant - pertaining to somebody whose gender, libido, orientation, romantic drive, etc. is outside the social norm; an example is gender-variant (sometimes considered synonymous with trans*), one who gender-identifies outside the social gender binary.

    -vestite - pertaining to the manner of dress of an individual, with or without reference to the societal expectations for how a person with a certain body presentation should be clothed; does not imply anything about orientation or gender identity.

    Grey / Gray - pertaining to somebody who does not perceive themselves to be at any specifically defined point in the asexual/sexual spectrum, or who feels that they tend to vary between several points on the spectrum on a regular basis

    Queer - pertaining to somebody whose romantic and/or sexual habits and/or gender identity/expression/body presentation do not specifically subscribe to the binary heteronormative standards of society; 'queer' is a reclaimed social slur that was previously used as a form of harassment against gay, lesbian, bisexual, transexual, transgender, and otherwise non-binary and/or non-heteronormative individuals and societies

    Straight - pertaining to somebody whose romantic and/or sexual habits and/or gender identity/expression/body presentation DO specifically subscribe to the binary heteronormative standards of society



**Many of these words exist as neologisms, and some are not yet entirely incorporated into the full lexicon of GSM.
"Troposexual / troporomantic" and "verisexual / veriromantic" were originated by Tegid of this forum.
"Demisexual" and by extension "demiromantic" were originated by Sonofzeal from AVEN.


Last edited by Tegid on Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:00 pm; edited 17 times in total

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:20 pm

Gender and Sex terms:

    Body presentation - the sex a person appears to be outwardly, whether or not it is the sex or gender they desire to display

    Cisgender - identifying as the same gender identity as the one assigned socially through societal gender roles

    Cissexual - identifying as the same sex as the one assigned at birth

    Gender - the mental characteristics, social roles, and other nonphysical details of a person that have bearing on how they perceive themselves, whether binary (male/female) or otherwise (such as but not limited to null-gender, pangender, genderqueer, bigender, trigender, etc.)

    Gender assignment - the gender society regards a person to be from birth; the social gender roles a person fills: "What do the authorities say I am?"

    Gender attribution - what we as individuals to to other people on first encountering them, before being told how to view them and what pronouns to use: the judgments we make and assumptions we hold about their gender and/or sex: "Is this person a man, woman, or something else entirely? What is my basis for this judgment?"

    Gender expression - the gender a person displays themselves to be, or imitates, in a way that other people can openly observe, typically through behaviour and mode of dress. A body-male drag queen is presenting as male, expressing as female, and performing as female. The observer may attribute them to be female, while most of society will assign them to be male, and expect them to perform that role. The individual may personally identify as any gender at all.

    Gender-fluid - identifying as being perpetually between two or more genders, either in a consistently phasic or situational way, or in a way that varies without consistency over any time duration

    Gender identity - the gender a person believes themselves to be; "Am I a man or a woman or something else entirely?"

    Gender performance - the degree to which a person "fits" and "follows" their societally-prescribed (and possibly societally-enforced): "Am I good at being a man or woman or other, based on how my culture defines it? Am I doing with my life what the culture thinks I should do with my life?" This has an impact on gender attribution, since a person whose body presentation and gender expression may be very ambiguous or confusing to the viewer, but if they perform strongly in the gender role considered "male" in that society, the viewer's instinctual reaction will be usually to attribute that person as "male", for lack of other clearly-defined information.

    Gender role - the tasks, preferences, and activities that society expects from a person of a particular gender; "What does the culture think I should do with my life?"

    Intersexed - having physical sex traits from birth that are anomalous or inclusive of both types of binary sex traits (male and female) at once; is usually result of a chromosomal anomaly. Intersexed individuals may personally identify as any sex or gender.

    Sex - the physical characteristics, hormonal traits, and chromosomal attributes, binary or otherwise, of a person, as dictated by their genes; sex does not automatically define gender identity, but it has an effect on gender assignment at birth. Sex can be altered through surgery, hormone therapy, and/or gene therapy.

    Sex assignment - the sex assigned a person at birth, typically by a doctor, and used on legal forms unless measures are taken to alter that legal status

    Transgender - identifying as a gender different than the one socially assigned or defined through sex at birth

    Transsexual - identifying as a sex different than the one assigned at birth, usually implies that steps have been, are being, or will be taken to physically, hormonally, or otherwise alter the individual to more closely correspond to their identified gender

    Two-spirit -
    : These terms describe indigenous people who fulfill one of many mixed gender roles found traditionally among many Native Americans and Canadian First Nations indigenous groups. These roles included wearing the clothing and performing the work that is traditional for both men and women. Dual-gendered, or “two-spirited,” people are viewed differently in different Native communities. Sometimes they are seen without stigma and are considered emissaries from the creator, treated with deference and respect, or even considered sacred, but other times this is not the case. “Two-spirit” is the closest thing to an appropriate umbrella term in referring to these gender traditions among Native peoples. However, even “two-spirit” is contested in modern usage.

    (Quote is from http://lgbtrc.ucdavis.edu/lgbt-education/lgbtqia-glossary, with thanks to that site and to Epochryphal for pointing it out.)



Last edited by Tegid on Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:37 pm; edited 2 times in total

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:50 pm

Types of Love (Greek, Latin, and Clinical terms):

    Agape: selfless, "Godly" love, a love that accepts another being in their entirety without any goal of changing them

    Amor: sexually-expressed love, sometimes viewed as the same as Eros

    Anteros: requited, reflected romantic love; love that returns to the giver but is not necessarily sexual

    Caritas: selfless, "Godly" love, different from Agape in that it seeks to better the condition or situation of other beings; the word 'charity' is derived from this word; sometimes Agape and Caritas are viewed as the same thing

    Eros: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eros_(concept) romantic love, usually does not imply sexual expression of this love; may be specifically one-sided

    Himeros: sexual desire, lust, unrequited love; viewable as the opposite of Anteros; love that does not return to the giver and is necessarily sexual

    Limerence: the stage of falling in love and being in love with somebody, usually characterized by an obsessively beloved-directed behaviour pattern set; tends to be temporary

    Philia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philia "brotherly" love between people viewing each other as equals, best friends, or colleagues

    Platonic love: love that bears absolutely no qualities of romance or sexualization; can be considered potentially a larger category that includes Agape, Caritas, Pothos, Philia, and Storge

    Pothos: a deep longing or yearning to be near somebody, but does not necessarily mean romantic or sexual expression of this love; can be a platonic love or the expression of a long-term long-distance relationship

    Storge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storge "familial" love between people who may be of different social ranks, such as parent-child and teacher-student; can also mean love that develops into romance after existing for a long time as friendship



Last edited by Tegid on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:52 pm


Types of Attraction and Desire:

(Much of this draws on Rabger's Model and the RADAR Chart Model, but I've elaborated on and added to much of it in an attempt to be as precisely clear as possible.)

    Primary Sexual Attraction: Sexual attraction to the outward characteristics of a person, independent of any bond or friendship with them; these characteristics can include (and are not limited to) physical appearance, scent, apparent wealth or occupation, openly displayed intellect, and/or skills/talents.

    Secondary Sexual Attraction: Sexual attraction to the known inward characteristics of a person, implied to be dependent on an existing bond or friendship with them (since you do not directly experience these qualities until you interact closely on the level of a friend or romantic partner). These characteristics can include (and are not limited to) emotional bonds, bonds of trust, romantic relationship with the subject, friendship to the subject, long-term displays of intellect, kindness or loyalty or other characteristics that the subject finds attractive in the object, etc.

    Primary Sexual Desire: Desire to engage in sexual activity for the subject's own pleasure and enjoyment; is related to Physical/Contact Desire, but neither automatically implies the other, since Contact can include things that are not sexual, and Sexual intimacy can include nonphysical psychological acts and details.

    Secondary Sexual Desire: Desire to engage in sexual activity for reasons other than the subject's own pleasure and enjoyment, such as desire to procreate, desire to give pleasure to the object of desire, obtainment of money or personal benefits, etc. Relationships that are both romantic and sexual in nature will typically include both primary and secondary sexual desire, in order for there to be reciprocity between the relationship's members.

    Primary Romantic Attraction: "Love at first sight", any romantic attraction that occurs without prior platonic friendship. Does not automatically imply short-term acquaintance or interaction, and can be with an effective stranger; only implies lack of prior friendship.

    Secondary Romantic Attraction: "Friends that became more", any romantic attraction that occurs after developing a prior platonic friendship. Does not automatically imply long-term friendship, and can be with a relatively new friend; only implies that friendship existed before romance.

    Primary Romantic Desire: The basic, general desire to seek, pursue, or be in a romantic relationship, simply to enjoy that relationship.

    Secondary Romantic Desire: The specific desire to seek, pursue, or be in a romantic relationship for reasons other than enjoyment, such as the social and financial benefits of being in a relationship with somebody else, or to give that enjoyment to somebody else, or to have help in raising a child.

    Aesthetic Attraction: With or without sexual or romantic connotations, and with or without being (a)romantic or (a)sexual, experiencing a desire to view the physical face and/or form of another person or people, due to appreciation of their perceived outward beauty.

    Kinetic Attraction: With or without sexual or romantic connotations, and with or without being (a)romantic or (a)sexual, experiencing a desire to view the physical movements, postures, and body-carriage of another person or people, due to appreciation of their perceived physical grace, strength, and/or dexterity.

    Physical, Sensual, or Contact Attraction: With or without sexual or romantic connotations, and with or without being (a)romantic or (a)sexual, experiencing a specific attraction to somebody else based on the specific desire to physically touch them or be touched by them, such as hugging, kissing, cuddling, hair-touching, etc.

    Physical, Sensual, or Contact Desire: With or without sexual or romantic connotations, and with or without being (a)romantic or (a)sexual, experiencing a general desire (a want without any specific target) to physically touch another person or people, such as hugging, kissing, cuddling, hair-touching, etc. A touch-aversive or touch-repulsed person would be somebody who specifically does not like to be touched or to touch other people, and experiences discomfort from physical contact with others.

    Fantasy or Hypothetical Attraction: With or without sexual or romantic connotations, and with or without being (a)romantic or (a)sexual, experiencing dreaming or hypothetical mental/emotional scenarios involving yourself or another person. In common use, to say that you fantasize about somebody is accepted to mean that you imagine yourself in romantic and/or sexual interactions with them, whether or not you are personally romantic or sexual to that person or their gender/sex.

    Platonic or Psychological Attraction: Completely nonromantic, nonsexual attraction to somebody and desire to be near them to interact with them.

    Repulsion: Personal aversion to romance, sexuality, a specific orientation or identity, or a specific person or group of people. In the Ace community, to call yourself Repulsed is commonly accepted to mean that you are Antisexual, or that to some lesser degree you find sexuality repulsive and causing discomfort to you.



Last edited by Tegid on Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:34 pm; edited 3 times in total

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:57 pm

Models, Scales, Methods, and Charts:
(work in progress)

    Kinsey Scale:

    Klein Sexual Orientation Grid:

    Rabger's Model:

    RADAR Chart Model:

    Tea's Model (temporary place-holder title):

    Tegid's Scales:


Issues in the larger communit(ies)

    Deference to Majority Allies:

    Erasing Language:

    Identity Policing:

    Inconsiderate Labeling:

    Infighting:

    Minority Disunity:

    Misrepresentation:

    Misunderstandings:

    "Oppression Olympics:"

    Perpetuation of Rape Culture:

    Privilege Denial:

    Prude-Shaming:

    Queer Appropriation:

    Slut-Shaming:

    Symbol Appropriation:

    Triggering Language:


Last edited by Tegid on Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:43 pm; edited 4 times in total

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by ratherdrinktea on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:31 pm

Also If you want to add to the model one that I'm working on which I think is pretty awesome. I guess it's like the sexual orientation grid except it's based on the aven triangle (Thanks to Birdwing on AVEN for helping me with that part). I'll post a picture of it when I get the chance and work out the kinks and try to come up with a name XD

ratherdrinktea
Visibility Specialist
Visibility Specialist

Posts: 35
Join date: 2011-08-29

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:33 pm

*laugh* Sure!

My recommendation: Create both a thread for it someplace in one of the subfora here AND an off-site location to host the image additionally. It's the sort of thing that deserves to be backed-up in at least two places.
If you put it someplace off-site, send me the link and its name, and I'll put it in the catch-all thread for that stuff in the "Links worth following" board, and then I'll put a definition for it here (come up with how you want it phrased, if you have a preference) in the dictionary.

I've been working on a degree-of-sexuality/libido/romanticism chart, myself. XD

Smile

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by mel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:47 pm

I've been working on models/definitions as well, mostly on "sexual attraction" I'm not a big fan of Rabger's Primary/Secondary distinctions but it's almost impossible to describe demisexuality coherently without them.

mel
Conversationalist

Posts: 68
Join date: 2011-08-30

http://meltheadorable.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:49 pm

I love the distinctions for the fact that they exist at all, and I'm striving very hard to define and explain them clearly. It's why I've added the romantic analogues to them:

Primary ___ Attraction = attraction to something on the outside, or immediate, and with a relative stranger or acquaintance

Secondary ___ Attraction = attraction to something on the inside, or occurring over time from an existing relationship

Primary ___ Desire = desire for the thing itself, for enjoyment, pleasure, and bonding

Secondary ___ Desire = desire for the fringe benefits of the thing itself, for support, for procreation, etc.


Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by ratherdrinktea on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:56 pm

The issue with most models is that they don't encompass everything (like mine doesn't explain demisexuality as well as it explains the idea of grey-as).

And I'm glad you put primary and secondary romantic attraction in as well because even on aven people don't understand demiromantics very well and that explains it better than I do Embarassed

ratherdrinktea
Visibility Specialist
Visibility Specialist

Posts: 35
Join date: 2011-08-29

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by mel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:57 pm

Tegid wrote:I love the distinctions for the fact that they exist at all, and I'm striving very hard to define and explain them clearly. It's why I've added the romantic analogues to them:

Primary ___ Attraction = attraction to something on the outside, or immediate, and with a relative stranger or acquaintance

Secondary ___ Attraction = attraction to something on the inside, or occurring over time from an existing relationship

Primary ___ Desire = desire for the thing itself, for enjoyment, pleasure, and bonding

Secondary ___ Desire = desire for the fringe benefits of the thing itself, for support, for procreation, etc.



Part of my problem is that it's unclear how "Primary Sexual Attraction" differs from other types of physical attraction (aesthetic, or sensual). And separating attraction from desire can be pretty messy too. Like, with sexual desire it's a little bit easier I guess, but even then, "bonding" could be seen as a secondary effect of sexual activity rather than something in the nature of the thing itself. Separating primary and secondary characteristics of things gets messy, and sometimes this sort of model seems to jump between a behavioralistic perspective and non-behavioralistic perspectives. I might be less opposed to them with added clarity, but so far I'm not a huge fan. I find the distinctions occasionally helpful, but not without problems.

mel
Conversationalist

Posts: 68
Join date: 2011-08-30

http://meltheadorable.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:11 pm

Heh, thanks. Smile

I tried to match the attractions and desires as analogously as I could between sexual and romantic, as follows:

Primary ____ Attraction = Attraction to outward characteristics, involving a stranger or acquaintance, often occurring fast

Secondary ____ Attraction = Attraction to inward characteristics, involving a known person or friend, REQUIRING existing bond of some kind, usually occurring over time

Primary ____ Desire = Desire for the basic pleasures, bonding, and enjoyment of the thing

Secondary ____ Desire = Desire for the fringe benefits, social benefits, and other factors of the thing beyond one's own personal pleasure, as well as the reciprocally-given pleasure to the other person/people involved

Ooop, Mel, you beat me to sending. XD Sorry! *answers that part, too, now*

Part of my problem is that it's unclear how "Primary Sexual Attraction" differs from other types of physical attraction (aesthetic, or sensual). And separating attraction from desire can be pretty messy too. Like, with sexual desire it's a little bit easier I guess, but even then, "bonding" could be seen as a secondary effect of sexual activity rather than something in the nature of the thing itself. Separating primary and secondary characteristics of things gets messy, and sometimes this sort of model seems to jump between a behavioralistic perspective and non-behavioralistic perspectives. I might be less opposed to them with added clarity, but so far I'm not a huge fan. I find the distinctions occasionally helpful, but not without problems.


I think some of the problem stems from the fact that, for me (as an example), the differences between those modes of attraction/desire are EXTREMELY clear. I'm strongly touch-aversive, so while I can deeply enjoy gazing upon a person the way I would deeply enjoy gazing upon a mountain range, or the ocean, or a beautiful tree... I want NO part in touching them, full stop.

I also strongly draw a line between physicality and sexuality. Sexuality includes not just the act of sexual intercourse in its physical form, but also all the psychological aspects of being in a sexual relationship with somebody... from sharing fantasies and disclosing fetishes and what you like to do in bed to just plain "dirty talk". Those are extremely sexual activities, and they can be done by telephone, with no touch occurring.
On the other hand, a physical relationship can be totally platonic and even familial. When you hug your grandmother, that is a physical interaction, and for the vast majority of humanity, it would be seen as a comprehensively nonsexual interaction.
Kissing your dog on the nose would also be widely perceived as nonsexual, but it is definitively physical.
Some people in asexual romantic (or even platonic) relationships like to cuddle, clothed or nude, without it becoming a sexualized interaction.

Primary sexual attraction only means that, based on a person's outwardly displayed characteristics, and without any pre-existing bond with them, you want a sexual relationship with them. This doesn't even necessarily mean that the sexual aspects are physical, and if you're touch-aversive, they could be restricted to interactions by phone, or text form, or dirty talk, or disclosure of other sexually intimate aspects of your psyche and thoughts.

Separating the primary and secondary aspects is messy when you are dealing with somebody who is normative in them and uses them both in their evaluation of a potential sexual partner. For those of us who use just one of them, the separation is a necessary basis from which to clarify ourselves to others, and we see the separation as extremely clear. Anybody experiencing both of them is probably going to experience them simultaneously or very near each other, to the point where separating them consciously becomes a contrived, forced mental activity, and therefore unnatural.
Anybody who doesn't experience EITHER of them is also probably going to see the separation as a contrived thing, because for lack of common experience, they will naturally have a difficulty understanding it at the same experiential level as somebody who has felt that drive, attraction, or desire. This isn't to say that aromantic aces are automatically ignorant of the situation (obviously not), but it is to say that, in all likelihood, there will be a basic difference in natural predisposition to rapidly gain understanding of and comfort with these terms, and differentiation between them. It's so much easier for them or a "fully sexual and romantic" person to just lump all those drives together as a single entity, since for the sexual person they are "normal", and for the ace they are "completely alien from my personal norms".

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Torraed on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:15 pm

Tegid wrote:Models, Scales, Methods, and Charts:
...
  • Torraed's Model (temporary place-holder title):

confused

ratherdrinktea wrote:Also If you want to add to the model one that I'm working on which I think is pretty awesome. I guess it's like the sexual orientation grid except it's based on the aven triangle (Thanks to Birdwing on AVEN for helping me with that part). I'll post a picture of it when I get the chance and work out the kinks and try to come up with a name XD

Based on that, I'm guessing you meant Tea's model...? I suppose I could come up with one if you'd like, but I'm pretty that was just a mistake.

Torraed
Active Member

Posts: 14
Join date: 2011-08-29
Age: 196
Location: Northeast

http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/user/36941-torraed/

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by Tegid System on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:18 pm

Oh, feggit. Sorry about that. You both have T-names with lots of vowels. >_<

My massive bad. Sorry, Tea!!!

*goes. Fixes. Ouch.*

Tegid System
Admin
Admin

Posts: 227
Join date: 2011-08-28
Age: 21
Location: Southern Illinois

http://thelemniscate.forumotion.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Primary Demi Grace Dictionary

Post by mel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:27 pm

Tegid wrote:
Part of my problem is that it's unclear how "Primary Sexual Attraction" differs from other types of physical attraction (aesthetic, or sensual). And separating attraction from desire can be pretty messy too. Like, with sexual desire it's a little bit easier I guess, but even then, "bonding" could be seen as a secondary effect of sexual activity rather than something in the nature of the thing itself. Separating primary and secondary characteristics of things gets messy, and sometimes this sort of model seems to jump between a behavioralistic perspective and non-behavioralistic perspectives. I might be less opposed to them with added clarity, but so far I'm not a huge fan. I find the distinctions occasionally helpful, but not without problems.


I think some of the problem stems from the fact that, for me (as an example), the differences between those modes of attraction/desire are EXTREMELY clear. I'm strongly touch-aversive, so while I can deeply enjoy gazing upon a person the way I would deeply enjoy gazing upon a mountain range, or the ocean, or a beautiful tree... I want NO part in touching them, full stop.

I also strongly draw a line between physicality and sexuality. Sexuality includes not just the act of sexual intercourse in its physical form, but also all the psychological aspects of being in a sexual relationship with somebody... from sharing fantasies and disclosing fetishes and what you like to do in bed to just plain "dirty talk". Those are extremely sexual activities, and they can be done by telephone, with no touch occurring.
On the other hand, a physical relationship can be totally platonic and even familial. When you hug your grandmother, that is a physical interaction, and for the vast majority of humanity, it would be seen as a comprehensively nonsexual interaction.
Kissing your dog on the nose would also be widely perceived as nonsexual, but it is definitively physical.
Some people in asexual romantic (or even platonic) relationships like to cuddle, clothed or nude, without it becoming a sexualized interaction.


I should note that while I have no trouble distinguishing a difference between "Aesthetic Attraction"/"Sexual Attraction" or other types of attraction as I do in many ways experience them separately, what I can't do is see how the model, definitionally, separates them for somebody who maybe doesn't experience them separately. The definition of "Primary Sexual Attraction" in what had been termed Rabger's model simply described it as "an instant attraction to people based on instantly available information such as their looks or smell..." which definitionally also applies to other types of physical attraction.

Tegid wrote:Primary sexual attraction only means that, based on a person's outwardly displayed characteristics, and without any pre-existing bond with them, you want a sexual relationship with them. This doesn't even necessarily mean that the sexual aspects are physical, and if you're touch-aversive, they could be restricted to interactions by phone, or text form, or dirty talk, or disclosure of other sexually intimate aspects of your psyche and thoughts.


But see, now we've linked attraction explicitly to desire again. What's the point in the separation if "sexual attraction" means "...you want [desire] a sexual relationship"? The definitions are too loose for the model as a whole to hold up to its constituent pieces, as far as I can tell.

Tegid wrote:Separating the primary and secondary aspects is messy when you are dealing with somebody who is normative in them and uses them both in their evaluation of a potential sexual partner. For those of us who use just one of them, the separation is a necessary basis from which to clarify ourselves to others, and we see the separation as extremely clear. Anybody experiencing both of them is probably going to experience them simultaneously or very near each other, to the point where separating them consciously becomes a contrived, forced mental activity, and therefore unnatural.
Anybody who doesn't experience EITHER of them is also probably going to see the separation as a contrived thing, because for lack of common experience, they will naturally have a difficulty understanding it at the same experiential level as somebody who has felt that drive, attraction, or desire. This isn't to say that aromantic aces are automatically ignorant of the situation (obviously not), but it is to say that, in all likelihood, there will be a basic difference in natural predisposition to rapidly gain understanding of and comfort with these terms, and differentiation between them. It's so much easier for them or a "fully sexual and romantic" person to just lump all those drives together as a single entity, since for the sexual person they are "normal", and for the ace they are "completely alien from my personal norms".


I mean, this is all probably correct, but as I mentioned earlier... I make a distinction between different types of attraction because the distinctions are very clear to me. It's less clear to me that the sort of model we're discussing adequately makes those distinctions clear.

mel
Conversationalist

Posts: 68
Join date: 2011-08-30

http://meltheadorable.tumblr.com

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum